It's Safe to Slow Down: Unrushing Healing & Trauma's Impact on Your Body with Hannah Guy

Visionary, are you rushing toward a "fixed" version of yourself, believing that healing must be hard, fast, and complicated?

In this eye-opening conversation, Jazzmyn sits down with trauma therapist Hannah Guy of Revive Therapy Services to break down the concept of "Too Much, Too Soon, Too Fast" and how this pace can actually prevent true healing from setting in. This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs and creators who struggle with self-trust, shame, and the compulsion to intellectualize their emotions.

Hannah and Jazzmyn unpack the nuances of Big T and little t trauma, emotional bypassing, and the toxic shame around feelings like anger and "stuckness"—especially in women and the Borderline Personality Disorder population. They challenge the idea of "doom scrolling" as rest and offer tangible, bottom-up approaches (like simple sensory practices and active rest) to widen your window of tolerance and build resilience without adding more pressure to your plate.

It's time to stop treating yourself like a "broken toaster" and give your mind and nervous system the deliberate, gentle rest it needs to finally process and integrate old wounds.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll content and telling yourself, I'll start posting tomorrow? Are you in your head worried about your friends and family thinking your friends refusing to be visible? Are you chasing trends instead of building influence? Welcome to the visibility standard, where the visionaries of today are changing the rules of their industries and letting their voice be heard. I'm your host, Jasmine, and we are studying together. I am so excited for my guest today. She is the owner of Revive Therapy Services. She is also the podcast host for Trauma Tea and Tangents. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:42

Hi everyone. It's so lovely to be on your podcast, Jasmine. I've been seeing you on social media and been watching your clips, and I resonate with so much of what you say. And it's so down to earth and real. And I always vibe with that over just like the fakeness of it all. But, anyways, my name is Hannah. I have a practice located in Philadelphia, and we specialize in trauma and eating disorders. We really work a lot with people with complex PTSD, and we use more bottom-up approaches like EMDR somatic experiencing. And I specifically am certified in EMDR. I really like working with trauma, complex trauma. And I always am down to have a conversation about this work that we do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33

Yes, I feel like trauma is such an evolving conversation. What is trauma? How do we define it? How do we experience it? And I think what we are coming down to is trauma is how you respond. And trauma is trapped into our bodies. Trauma is the impact that is left on us. And I love the concept that you presented for what we discussed, which is what happens when trauma happens too fast, too soon, and too often.

SPEAKER_01: 2:09

I know you've probably touched on this, but I think it's important to just remind people there's different types of trauma. Like we have our big tea trauma of just those things that people normally consider as a traumatic event, like that car accident, domestic violence, abuse, and all of those are trauma. But we oftentimes skip over that what we call little tea trauma, which is kind of just like your day in and out experiences that for some reason your nervous system isn't able to process it in an adaptive way. And so then that results in kind of like a block. Then that's when trauma happens. I recently, not recently, I was working with my own therapist maybe earlier this year. And I'm very much personally like, okay, like let's just get this shit done, right? I'm like, I'm done with this. I've been working on it forever, let's rip off the band-aid. And she was the first one to ever bring up this concept of oftentimes something is traumatic because it happens too soon, too much, too fast for your nervous system to be able to handle. And so oftentimes, um, especially in Western cultures, we just want that immediate fix. So we try to heal trauma in the same exact way, right? Too much, too soon, too fast. So we dive deep into intense trauma work. We sign up for all these like self-help programs because we just want it to be over with. And what my therapist said at the time was we need to do the inverse of that, actually. You know, we need to go actually probably a little too slow and underload ourselves with the things that we need to heal.

SPEAKER_00: 4:02

Yeah, I love that you say that as I'm thinking about my own healing journey, especially with diving into trauma and especially those little tea traumas. I think one thing that society paired with our own protective parts is that we can minimize those little tea traumas and we can tell ourselves wasn't that big of a deal in comparison to big T trauma. Like I'm standing tall, and every time we invalidate that part of ourselves, we are reinforcing the trauma A, and it's going to be much harder to access later on in therapy. So as I've been working with my own therapist, I recognize like I'll talk about something, and then there's this block that comes up, and I'm like, no, I just want to work through it, I want to figure it out. And then there's that protective part that's like actually, this is gonna be really hard for you to process. Like, I know you have intellectualized it, you you have figured it out, but this is actually gonna hurt.

SPEAKER_01: 5:09

Intellectualizing, you know, as therapists, we're just I don't know if you approach it, I'm like, yeah, I already know everything. And because I know everything, which is not true, everyone, I do not know everything, but I feel like how I've adapted to work through my own trauma is just to really understand the why and psychoanalyze myself, which there's a benefit to that. There's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't actually help me process the trauma, it just really throws gas on the fire when I actually need to just like pause and instead of trying to figure out the why and how am I gonna handle this situation? Is just can you just be in the present moment and take a deep breath? And like what part of you is screaming right now? What part of you needs attention? And can you attend to that part that's freaking the fuck out?

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

Oh, yeah. And it's that emotional bypassing that we try to do. We try to, we have the why, we have the I know why this happened. I've opened up all the psychoed books, I have the training. Yeah, then we're skipping the part where we're like, oh, I feel disappointed, I feel abandoned, I feel rejected.

SPEAKER_01: 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:18

Sitting with that is a million times harder than sitting with the why.

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

Yeah. Yeah, because we don't want to actually have to sit with the feelings of abandonment, rejection, whatever it may be, because oftentimes for a lot of us, no one taught us how to do that. Right? You know, no one showed us that it's okay to feel abandoned, like the feelings that come around it. It's okay to feel rejected and that loneliness, despair, shame that you're feeling. I know you think it's the boogeyman, and we need to like run from it, but it's actually not the boogeyman at all. It's kind of just like this little thing hiding under the bed that needs to be acknowledged and comforted.

SPEAKER_00: 7:11

One of the more shameful feelings I feel like in trauma healing, aside from shame, is anger. Because when you just spoke to not learning how to process it, especially in women, anger is seen as such an ugly trait. I don't want to be angry. I don't like how my anger comes out. And I always tell people nine times out of ten, you have not learned how to process anger. You have not learned how to express anger. As a result, the anger has come out invalid, but maybe also some maladaptive ways.

SPEAKER_01: 7:51

A lot of people that I work with who have complex PTSD anger at the beginning of their healing journey isn't even an emotion that they feel. Right? Because they take the responsibility for everything and they blame themselves, and that then there's the shame. And actually, I can tell when they're healing when that anger starts bubbling up, and then they're like, I don't know what to do with it. Society really doesn't let women be angry, it's not an appropriate emotion. And oftentimes when we've been through trauma, we want to feel in control, and anger is a big emotion where we feel very out of control.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

Oh, yeah. And it gets labeled as bitchy, it gets getting labeled as, oh, you're so mean. Like, why are you yelling at me? Oh, you're hysterical. Like we have labeled and pathologized anger in women to an extent where it is so shameful for women to say, I am angry, because then the oftentimes perpetrator says, Oh, you're overreacting. Now the anger grows and they suppress it. Yeah, and now they're stuck with feeling confused, and that's where like I think that questioning of self-trust comes in.

SPEAKER_01: 9:15

Oh my gosh, the self-trust thing. It's such a hard thing to do when you have. Do you work a lot with complex trauma? Yeah, I'm sure you see this a lot in your clients. It's just so hard to trust yourself. You don't know what the baseline of self-trust even looks like.

SPEAKER_00: 9:36

No, I I love working with the borderline population, and they have such like a special place in my heart because that is one of the primary like populations where their anger is quickly pathologized, it is quickly dismissed because it is so hard for someone to sit with, and that's more so the clinician's ability to regulate, the ability to be able to share that space with someone. But nine times out of ten, they have not learned how to regulate that anger, and nobody has validated that anger because it shows up and people back away and then say, Whoa, you need to tame that. So, what if we just validated it first? What if we said, you know what? What you just experienced, what you have experienced, is terrible, and you get to be angry. We get so distracted by the presentation of it that we completely miss the meaning behind it.

SPEAKER_01: 10:46

Yeah. I mean, I think it's like any of those really big emotions that people display, it's appropriate to a certain extent. But if we dial it up to level 10, people are scared. Right? People don't know how to hold space for that. There's a lot of therapists that if someone dialed it up to 10 in a therapy session, they'd kind of just know how to handle this. So when everyone around you is like scared of your own emotions, you're kind of like, oh shit, like this emotion is so dangerous, and I shouldn't be feeling this way. So I need to dial it down. Then what happens when you dial it down? You still have all those emotions in you, and it has to come out somehow. So it comes out in those maladaptive behaviors or like self-harm or bulsivity, suicidal ideation, eating disorders, right? Like it comes out in those ways because we learned that feeling the emotions we have to the extent that we feel is not safe, it's not physically appropriate, and we want we just want to be loved. And so, in order to be loved, we dial it down.

SPEAKER_00: 11:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 11:53

We hide in shame.

SPEAKER_00: 11:56

As we're talking about this, after someone has experienced and allowed themselves to experience the range of emotion, I think one of the things that stumps us is when we start to feel tired, when our body starts to crash after processing trauma, and we go to therapy and say, I have no idea why I'm tired. It's like your nervous system has just processed, reprocessed years of trauma, and it has gone through a wide range of emotions on top of creating a barrier for you to function throughout the day, to do your work, to do day-to-day stuff and not get lost in it. Your body needs rest when it is processing complex trauma.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Yeah, probably more rest than you think you need. And so that's a very common thing with EMDR. Do you do EMDR or what modalities do you do?

SPEAKER_00: 12:57

I don't do EMDR, but I do a lot of attachment-based work.

SPEAKER_01: 13:00

Cool, like internal family system, hence the name of your podcast. Um with EMDR, right? That's very intense trauma processing. And it's it's funny because I might do 15 minutes with someone, especially for their first time doing it, just to like dip their toes in the water. And if it's very interesting, I would say like nine times out of ten, they come back the next thing, they're like, I was just exhausted the next like two days. Like what just happened? And I'm like, your brain just worked a lot, and with EMDR specifically, your nervous system in your brain is continuing to reprocess what we did in those 15 minutes for the next couple hours, the next couple days, weeks, months, however long it takes. Like it's a continual thing, it doesn't just stop at the end of a session. And so to your point, I think it might be helpful for us to like talk about what does rest even mean? So I think people just think it means you sit and hang out and scroll on your phone and watch TV and write. But that I don't really count that as a form of rest. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00: 14:16

Oh no, it certainly still keeps your brain active. Doom scrolling is a numbing tactic, but it is not a restful tactic. I still feel, even when I find myself doom scrolling, overwhelmed, overstimulated. I am, but I am trying to numb it by watching videos, scrolling on social media, watching a comfort show, which sometimes can like just border something that you don't have to pay attention to. So, like one of my telltale signs is if I'm watching a show and I've let it run through and I have no idea what's happening, I will typically now pause and be like, okay, I need to pick a different show that I need to engage in because I am not allowing myself the space to be present in my rest.

SPEAKER_01: 15:07

Yeah, I think kind of doom scrolling, watching TV, whatever it may be for you is a form of dissociation. Right. And so when people think of like trauma response, they think of high anxiety, panic, freakout, right? And yes, that is a trauma response, and that's the hyper arousal piece of it. But then we have the hypo arousal piece, which is the trauma response in of itself, and that's like dissociation, that's freezing. And I think this this one is overlooked because it's more comfortable in a way, it's more socially acceptable, you're not creating a scene, right? And so we get overstimulated by everything in our life, and then we go home and how do we rest? Well, we're just gonna shut down. And I'm not saying dissociation is bad, by the way. I think some people are like dissociating is bad. I'm like, no, there it's a spectrum. Like sometimes it is appropriate to dissociate. However, if that's kind of your baseline when you're not at work or when you're not engaging in relationships, we gotta ask why. What is so uncomfortable if you just put down your phone and sat with yourself for a minute?

SPEAKER_00: 16:25

Yeah. What are some ways you like to rest?

SPEAKER_01: 16:28

This definitely has taken years for me to get to, just to throw this out there for people. I have been consistently meditating at least like four or five times a week now. I joined this meditation center and it's it's guided because if it's not guided in my brain, it's gonna go all over the place. But it's I can do it online and I can show up in person, and it's about an hour, the first 15 minutes, like you're talking about like a theme, and then it's guided for like 40 minutes. And if you were to tell me two years ago, I would be able to sit through and do a 40-minute meditation, I'd be like, ha, like I can't even sit still. Like a 10-minute meditation felt so uncomfortable. Um, but I think doing that, I've noticed my window of tolerance has increased, my anxiety has decreased. I'm less irritable at people. Okay, like I notice when I'm more sensitive and my more trauma response y I'm more irritable. Like things that aren't a big deal, I get so mad at. For instance, I have dogs and they bark at other dogs when we're on leash, and I'll leave my house and I'll see another someone walking their dog, and then my dogs are barking. And I get so mad at that other person. Like, how dare you walk your dog right now? Like, screw you. Like, how dare you? I'm like, damn, Hannah. Like, they're allowed to walk their dog. This is a huge issue. I find that when I'm consistently meditating, I'm able to regulate myself more. And the points of regulation, I also just want to throw out there, isn't that you feel nice and dandy and calm. People think that's what it means to be within your window of tolerance. No, there are plenty of times where I am on edge, I'm irritable, I'm anxious, and I'm within my window of tolerance, right? Like I'm able to bring myself back down. I'm just closer to that threshold. So I have to be mindful that I'm closer to this threshold. So I need to create more boundaries of maybe what I take on or the conversations I have that day. So for me, going back to the question, it's really prioritizing meditating. But I think if you're just getting into it, don't bite off more than you can chew. I'm not saying go meditate four to five times a week for 40 minutes each session because you're not gonna sustain that. It's can you pause when you drink your coffee in the morning instead of scrolling? Can you put your phone down? And can you just go through your five senses? Honestly, like what do you see? What does it feel like to hold the coffee in your hand? What does it taste like? Is it hot? Is it cold? Almost like you're trying to explain to an alien what a cup of coffee is. Um, really getting specific with that. And then cool, you can pick up your phone and scroll. But it's kind of slowly building that habit of rest because you're not going to be able to do it if you're just, I'm gonna sit here for an hour. Like your body, that's on too much for it. Again, too much, too much.

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

And then there's even like active forms of rest. Like to your point, there a lot of people think of rest as mindfulness and sitting down. Walking can also be a form of rest. Do you walk without headphones in? Are you walking, even without walking your dog? Are you just allowing yourself the space to stroll through the neighborhood? Cooking for me has been a real form of rest and cooking, like even baking. So I've been really getting into baking breads. I have a sourdough starter that I'm working on, like really just getting into the mindfulness of baking. I actually used to hate baking. Why? Because it took a long time, because I needed to pay attention to my measurements, because it was such a process that I didn't have time for. Now I recognize the value in being able to slow down and be able to create something really yummy that feels good, that looks good, and giving myself that permission to slow down. I don't need to be at a 10 all the time. It's not sustainable and it's not realistic. But the more that I've allowed myself the space to bake and even cooking most of what I eat, I haven't cooked like the last couple of days just because I haven't had anything thawed, and I feel drained from that because I have not allowed myself the space to be creative in that way, and I'm like feeling the effects of it. And so when we think about rest, thinking about what is going to offer us a breath of fresh air in our healing journey? What is going to allow us to maintain that window of tolerance or return to that window of tolerance? A lot of times when I'm having more of a stressful day or I find myself more frustrated, I find myself more short-tempered. I think, okay, you know what, Jasmine? I'm gonna actually cook something. I'll actually maybe intentionally choose to cook something more elaborate so that I have to be in the kitchen longer, so that I am in the process of creating longer.

SPEAKER_01: 21:53

Yeah. It's about getting curious about what kind of fills your cup specifically for you. It's okay if you don't know. You're not, to be frank, you're not gonna know, especially if you have complex PTSD. If you've never even thought about this, you're not going to know because you're not aware. Because you aren't paying attention. So it's figuring out what feels good. Like cooking and baking to me, that makes me more anxious. Right? Because it's just more much to do. Vice versa, like the idea of meditating, you can be like, yeah, fuck that. Like that is not what I want to do. I know for me, when I'm really like antsy and like ramped up, sometimes just like talking to a friend about what's happening, but then just about nothing and connecting with them. I get off that call and I feel kind of like this, just like right, this breath of fresh air of okay, I'm okay. Like, yes, this is going on, and it kind of snaps me back into reality of this isn't the end of the world because that's kind of my defense mechanisms. I catastrophize and everything's like so it's figuring out what works for you specifically, and that takes time. And again, going back to this concept of like we don't need to rush this, we don't need to rush healing. Actually, stop, stop rushing healing. Be present. Oh no, I was gonna say, like, I feel like with healing, we I am like this. I'm like, I just need to be fixed because once I'm fixed, then I'll never have to feel discomfort again. And I'm kind of unraveling that. And I've been saying, like, okay, you're not like a broken toaster that needs to be fixed, you're a human being, and your job is to be. We don't need to get to the end result of fixed because newsflash, you're never gonna find that.

SPEAKER_00: 23:58

And I always tell my clients that I'm working with is it's not going to be just one thing. And so having a toolbox of things is wonderful, whether that's if you find that cooking and meditating are working for you, going for a walk. If walking isn't working for you, listening to music. If listening to music isn't working for you, playing a game, it's having multiple things to reach towards. And to reiterate Hannah's point, it's going to take time. It is going to take time to know what works, to know what doesn't work. Something's gonna work, and then two years later, it's not going to work, and that is not any reflection of where you are on your healing journey. It just means you've got to change up the the game plan a little bit. And that is not a reflection of you, that is not a failure, that is just what it is. It has taken so much time for part of my own healing is being able to take a nap without feeling lazy.

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

Mm-hmm. And if you haven't noticed everything that Jasmine and I are talking about, they're not these like big, huge, complicated processes that involve a lot of energy or steps. We automatically assume healing has to be hard and has to be complicated. Break it down into the simpler the better. So if it's yeah, taking a walk, I know that kind of doesn't seem like this big deal. Like it sometimes I feel like people are like, I want to kill myself, and you're just telling me to take a walk, and I'm just like, I'm not minimizing it. That's a big feeling. And something as simple as just going for a walk can sometimes hit the reset button. So when you're starting this journey, like the simpler the better.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Yeah. One step at a time, one day at a time. Yeah. What is one piece of advice you would offer to someone that is on their healing journey and they are feeling at a loss with the tools that they have right now?

SPEAKER_01: 26:20

That's a really good question. That's a really good question. I think I would get curious about their definition of what is at a loss mean. You know, it it might be realigning the expectations of your coping skills, right? If you're getting into meditating or like baking or something, and you're going through a crisis and it's not working, right? It's oh yeah, you're going through a crisis. Like baking cookies is not going to solve that. And so we need to realign your expectations of the function of your coping skills. It's not so you feel better every time after you use them. It's the way to support you. And so let's just say your distress level is like a 10. And if we can get it down to like a nine, yeah, it's still uncomfortable, but it's at a nine instead of a 10. And you know, we typically are like it's at a 10 and we want it to be a zero now. And that's not gonna happen quickly. And I also remind people when they're in crisis, it's physiologically impossible for your body to stay at that level 10. It will down regulate, like it has to, because that takes up so much energy to be that escalated. So I think that's the first thing I'd get curious about of why, and then kind of evaluate what are your like one, what are your coping skills and have they ever worked? Or are you just kind of like checking off the box of look, I did this? You know what I mean? Figuring out that it's not a kind of like you were saying, it's not a one size fits all. But I think the biggest thing is with trauma, with anyone, building a skill takes time, and that includes building coping skills. So for instance, if you're working on deep breathing to help regulate, it's really not fair to expect yourself to be able to get calm when you have a panic attack the second time you ever practice deep breathing. Because if you think about it, you haven't developed that neural pathway in your brain. It's almost as if, Jasmine, I'm like, you've never played the game of basketball, and I tell you how to play basketball, and then I go throw you into an NBA game. Like, is that fair? You would never that of someone. And the same thing goes with these coping skills. This is a new thing. Your brain is figuring out what this even is, and you're expecting it to what calm calm you down three times after you practice deep breathing. It's a consistent, it's a consistency thing, it's a consistent practice that you need to be disciplined in. And I would tell people, are you practicing these coping skills when you are regulated? Because if you're just using them when you're at a level 10, so we need to intervene when you're at like a level six or seven. Once you hit level 10, it's riding that wave.

SPEAKER_00: 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:37

You know, you need to like start when you're feeling fine. Right? We're not gonna teach you how to play basketball and be like, okay, practice dribbling while you're playing in an NB game. We're gonna show up when there's no one else to see you dribble.

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

You're gonna learn how to drive the car in the empty parking lot of the movie theater. That's closed. We're not gonna ask you to go in the interstate and learn how to drive.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Yeah, exactly. Um, I'm gonna throw that question back at you. What do you do when clients kind of come to you just feeling like nothing's working?

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

Nothing's working. Really sit. I think I really sit with that first and explore where they feel like they should be. What's that expectation they're holding themselves at? And bridge statement. So, like is if you feel like a failure right now, it's unrealistic sometimes to ask someone and say, Oh, I feel worthy and I feel smart and I feel capable. What's the what is one step away from feeling like a failure and then working with that statement, placing one action that can support you in the direction that you want to go? But I think a lot of times what I see is that we have these shoulds, we have these expectations that we've placed on ourselves that have been placed on us by society, by the people around us, from social media, and we're holding ourselves to a standard that might not be in alignment with where we are or what we need. And so exploring that and peeling back that onion and allowing the person to really explore it from a place of authenticity, fine can be helpful, it can be scary, but it can be helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 31:34

Yeah. I think with that stuck place, too, that just is another another level of discomfort that we feel like we need to run away from. You know, like I'm stuck, I can't be stuck because it's not safe to be stuck, and actually it is technically like I always like to bring it back to the physical. Like, are you physically safe right now? Is there a bear chasing you? Are you living in the traumatic environment you were living in before? No, okay, so you're safe and you're feeling stuck. Like, I literally will pull up a feelings wheel and be like, let's identify all the emotions that come along with stuck. It's more than just I feel stuck. There's probably frustration, there's probably overwhelm. Um, there's probably a level of shame that you can't move past this, right? And then have them do a body scan of just where is this stuckness showing up in your body?

SPEAKER_02: 32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:36

Right. And then what is that negative belief that's coming along with that stuckness? Like it could be I'm a failure. Should be over here with my healing because I've spent all this money and years in therapy and I'm only here. Okay, I'm a failure. And instead of trying to fix it, we sit with it. And by sitting with that, I don't mean let's psychoanalyze it. I mean, can we just notice that place in your body and take a couple breaths?

unknown: 33:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:04

Without judgment. And just notice does anything shift? No, okay, that's fine. Like we're not we're removing expectations here, we're just being in that present moment and holding space for that part that's stuck.

SPEAKER_00: 33:18

Hannah, I have loved this conversation. I think a lot of my listeners will be able to resonate and really just normalizing that healing does not have to be complicated, it does not have to be expensive, it does not have to be figured out in a day. As a closing question to all of my guests, I am asking, what is your commitment to yourself for 2025?

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

Hmm. I mean, it just sums up this conversation to slow down.

unknown: 33:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 34:00

Slow down with my healing, slow down with my expectations of myself, be present, really be with those parts of me that really want to speed up and let them know it's safe to slow down. And there's no expectations of those parts. Like we can just be. Some days it's harder.

SPEAKER_00: 34:21

That's healing. That's truly it is an evolving roller coaster that we're on, and every day doesn't look the same, but it doesn't mean you're not making progress.

SPEAKER_01: 34:34

Correct.

SPEAKER_00: 34:35

Correct, correct. I also realize it's halfway through 2025. So when is it appropriate to have like have you met your commitment for yourself for 2025?

SPEAKER_01: 34:47

To be frank, I I don't necessarily see things in like year. Like I'm kind of like, this is just what I need right now. In a couple months, it might evolve into something else. I don't know. But I think it's something I'm proactively conscious of on a daily basis of just slowing down. Um, we'll see what happens in three months. It might be the same thing, but yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

Hannah, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01: 35:18

Of course. Thank you so much for having me on.