The Antidote to Fear: Action over Perfection to Dissolve Your Resistance to Being Seen with Casey Stevens

Are you stuck in a cycle of resistance and self-abandonment, telling yourself you'll start tomorrow? This episode is your guide to understanding the unconscious barriers holding back your visibility and business expansion.

Host Jazzmyn Proctor sits down with spiritual psychotherapist Casey Stevens (known on Instagram as @ShrinkBigger) to dive into the number one thing people avoid: resistance. Casey explains her unique approach to healing, blending traditional psychology with an expansive, intuitive framework.

They discuss why chasing external approval leads to self-betrayal and how our nervous system holds us captive in a state of immobility and fear. Learn to spot the difference between genuine danger and the protective parts of your brain projecting past trauma.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why your affirmations aren't working: The need for nuanced, believable truth instead of vague, sweeping statements.
• How to Shrink Bigger: Casey's philosophy on distilling complex issues into simple fragments to achieve expansive growth.
• The power of subtle shifts: Why celebrating small, quiet wins is essential for nervous system regulation and achieving bigger goals.
• Action as the antidote: How showing up imperfectly is the most effective way to retrain your body and dissolve your fear of being seen.
• Integrity as alignment: Why being devoted to your values simplifies your life and clears the path for true entrepreneurial visibility.

Casey shares her personal journey of overcoming the discomfort of visibility and using her authentic voice, proving that continuous, imperfect action is the only way to build the confidence required for your expansion.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll content and telling yourself, I'll start posting tomorrow? Are you in your head worried about your friends and family thinking your cringe refusing to be visible? Are you chasing trends instead of building influence? Welcome to the Visibility Standard, where the visionaries of today are changing the roles of their industries and letting their voice be heard. I'm your host, Jasmine, and we are setting the standard. And that's resistance. Casey, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02: 0:43

Hi, Jasmine. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

So I want to first dig into your handle. Your name is Shrink Bigger on Instagram, and that is so interesting to me. Really stood out. What made you choose that name?

SPEAKER_02: 0:58

It just like most kind of divine wisdom does, it just kind of dropped in. And I felt like, you know, that is me. I really love the double entendre, right? The nuance of the idea that so many times we can feel like there's some constraint or restriction, right? And some of these traditional frameworks, and sometimes they can be linear. And so I love the idea. Of course, I love this work and I love psychology and I love understanding the psychoanalysis of human behavior and all of that. And there are definite patterns that we need to understand and appreciate and have, you know, respect and reverence for. And how do we do that in a more expansive way? How do we do that in a way that really can blow the ceiling off of any constraints that might be there and not get stuck? Frankly, sometimes I think people can get stuck in that hamster wheel of traditional therapy and not feel like they're advancing. And so, how do we advance beyond? And so I think it was just this intelligence that dropped through me, like all downloads do. And it's just like, oh yeah, that's who I am. That's how I want to operate, that's how I want to imbue the consciousness of the frequency of how I want to show up and hold space for people. That I and I think there is an intelligence to all of that. Like there's a consciousness to everything, even when you come and work, you know, you're gonna be we're gonna be doing this kind of shrink work, but we're gonna be doing it in an expansive way. So that was what dropped through.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

Oh my gosh. Cause I looked at that, and that, like you said, the double entendre, but also can be taken so many ways. When I read it, I received it as the play on don't shrink yourself, how expansion can just really tug on a lot of the parts that we may not be ready for, but also the typical buzzword of being a shrink, being a therapist. And so that this conversation right now has just expanded my own knowledge of your name. So thank you so much for sharing that. What do you feel like has led you to approach psychotherapy in such a different way?

SPEAKER_02: 3:10

I came by it organically, as many of us do, right? I came into this work after I was in pursuit of my own container for healing. And what I really recognized that I needed when I was in that space of need, of seeking, of trying to find a container that could really hold me, which I don't think is a coincidence because there's, I think, a divine intelligence even to that, is I found a therapist who, and I didn't know it was what I needed at the time, but she really practiced in this way where she incorporated her own intuition. She thought of things in an expansive way. It wasn't just, she definitely had the framework and the foundation of the psychology realm that I love because I like to analyze and chew on things and I want to understand them. And so we could talk about it, but we could also do it again in this very expansive way that felt like it incorporated my spiritual self. So that was just so important to me. And what I noticed in my own healing is I really needed a space where I could be that spiritual self and I could incorporate my intuition and reconnect with that part of myself that had perhaps been dormant or neglected or abandoned in some parts of my life. And so she really reflected that back to me in a way that once I decided to go back to school and do this work myself, she reflected it to me in this way that I thought, okay, I want to do that. I want to bring my own medicine and my own magic to this. It's not about copying anybody else or absorbing somebody else's way of doing it. But I think what makes us really brilliant as therapists and anytime we sit in the presence of anyone is really when they bring their own truth, their own values, their own wisdom, their own personality to their work. And so for me, what I really uncovered is such a big part of who I am, is my what I would call my spiritual self. And so if I were to try to hide that, number one, I would be abandoning myself and couldn't really show up that way as authentically. If I were doing that, I wouldn't enjoy my sessions as well. I wouldn't be as good at what I do. But also I wouldn't be in this container that was reflecting that and giving people the permission to also be their kind of true, authentic, vulnerable selves. And so I recognize through that kind of genesis of my own healing how I wanted to show up as a healer.

SPEAKER_01: 5:36

When we think about the search for a therapist, especially for people who have maybe never saw a therapist, we think about modalities often, we think about gender, we think about do they address this specific issue? But we rarely talk about if the therapist is an energetic match. Can they bring in their spiritual psych? Are they allowing themselves to see the framework and be expansive about it? Because truly a lot of our modalities are limiting. They are very specific, they are meant for very specific goals, sometimes for very specific types of people. And so allowing our intuition, allowing spirituality to work as another element into the therapeutic process allows us, in my opinion, to meet people more authentically.

SPEAKER_02: 6:31

Absolutely. We have to put our imprint on anything I think that we do. Otherwise, it's really void of what is the most quintessential, meaningful part of what could emerge from that. And so that can't be separate from showing up in our work, in our relationships. And you know, these relationships are some of the most intimate relationships we'll ever have. Even if they're professional relationships, they're deeply intimate. And so to not show up as your true whole self in that space feels like something is lost or missing to me. And so that real self of the therapist, but showing up and I guess being devoted to imprinting our own unique blueprint in a way that, of course, is always about the client, right? But in a way that also allows them, I mean, we're mirrors, right? And so how do we show up in a way that they would subtly, subliminally be able to absorb your true presence and your true essence? And so that is what I, you know, have been devoted to doing and how I feel like our medicine comes through. And I think anytime we really resonate with anyone in any relationship, but certainly again, this therapeutic relationship that's such an intimate, you know, you know, sacred one, how do we really imbue that with our true essence? And people can feel that there's a felt sense that is so healing in and of itself that I think it's important.

SPEAKER_01: 8:01

You mentioned self-abandonment, and I want to dig into that because I feel like within the social media space, especially, so many of us are hopefully not only embodying but discussing ways that we avoid self-abandonment in this work because it is it is a work where we are mirrors, where we are supporting other people, yet the process can really lend itself to burnout, to overextending ourselves, to being accommodating. What has that process looked like for you in terms of exploring what it means to not self-abandon?

SPEAKER_02: 8:39

Everything. I mean, I, you know, absolutely could have been an expert on self-abandonment because I learned, you know, through the circuitous path. I really came, like I said, into this before I was a therapist and I was just doing my own healing work. What I really had to evaluate is some deep patterns that had emerged for me were self-abandonment. I really kind of, you know, was so expert at uh the relationships and the people in close proximity to me at the detriment of really knowing um and embodying my own truth, my own essence, my own values. And so I had to really learn, you know, go through that process uh in kind of reverse osmosis so that I could uh discover who I was and then really through that doing it in all the wrong ways, of course, unconsciously and without knowing I was doing that in kind of my formative years, um, recognizing how, again, that's sort of the antithesis of what we're here to do and who we're here to be. And to abandon ourselves really, you know, doesn't please or serve anyone else, least of which ourselves, but those relationships are not benefiting really if we're just showing up in an accommodating way because we're never truly known. And I think, you know, those can be such core wounds too of like, how do we truly desire to be so deeply known? And I think that's something that we're in pursuit of, and yet we might go about those in compensatory strategies that are, you know, taking us so far away from actually truly being known or seen or understood in a way that would be satisfying or meeting a deep human need that we have, right? To be known. And so we have to abandon all of the self-abandonment, really. We have to, you know, eradicate that from our life and be so devoted again to just knowing ourselves, being true to ourselves, being self-actualized in that, and then our willingness to share that in an unapologetic way, so that the people that are meant to be in our lives, because not everyone is gonna resonate. We are not meant to have be liked by everybody, we're not meant to have every relationship that's available to us. We're meant to have relationships that are aligned, we're meant to be known, we're meant to be seen and appreciated for who we truly are, not who um you need me to be, right? And so for me, it's in this again, this genesis of really needing to do it all the wrong ways and then understand how deeply unserving that was to me and to all my relationships, so that I could truly show up in a way that um I could enjoy myself, but also other people could enjoy my presence.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Yeah, I I feel like this ties in so closely when we were talking offline about discussing resistance when we recognize that there may be a relationship or an opportunity or something that isn't aligned, and our intuition is telling us there's more out there if you just let this go, let this go. What do you think really holds us back from taking that step to explore what else is out there?

SPEAKER_02: 11:57

Well, I think there's many different languages that we could put on it right in this world, but um, you know, they're protective parts. It's our nervous system that's not um adjusted to the unknown. There's a fear or a trauma that is associated with having stepped out and dared to be our authentic self. And so there's so there's shadow material, right, that exists there. And, you know, the resistance shows up because it's trying to protect us, right? It's a protective part. Um, but it's not necessarily doing it. And so it's identifying when um that protective part is actually prohibiting us from having a more expansive experience, right? So um the attempt, right, and it's it's the ability to kind of see that resistance sometimes, right? Um especially resistance, I guess, if we think about that as right, it's like resistance itself is really not protective. And so if we're resisting something um versus really attuned to, is there a reason that I'm being steered away from that, right? That's a different consciousness, I think, and frequency than, and so is there wisdom in that, right? Should I listen because there's some real wisdom in that? But usually what's happening is there's a resistance because we're uncomfortable, we're fearful, we're traumatized, there's shadow material, and therefore we're trying to protect ourselves from having a negative experience. And so likely that's usually what's happening rather than some real safety issue, like, okay, this is really not good for me. And so I need to avoid that because it's truly not safe. Our brain, our nervous system tells us that what's new, what's unfamiliar, what's unknown is unsafe. And so we we resist expanding into that field of uh experience because we fear that something negative could happen. And there's such a negative association that's so subconsciously linked in our mind that we avoid that painful experience. And so, and the protective parts show up and all of that, right? Um, and so it's really understanding and asking yourself this question am I truly in danger here? Is there something to fear or um truly a safety issue? Or is it my perception of that experience that I'm projecting on from a past lived experience that is giving me false information and not allowing me to be expression and expansion of myself?

SPEAKER_01: 14:33

Can resistance be unconscious?

SPEAKER_02: 14:36

Absolutely. I think most times it is, right? We don't really understand the source of it. Um, we don't really because it gives us a false message, right? The message is stop, don't go there, fear that, be you know, be afraid, be weary, um, you know, don't allow yourself to have that experience. And so I think that's typically unconscious because if we were conscious about it, then we would we would be able to kind of walk through the process in a constructive and healthy way, which is what we want to do, right? It's not like we just want to leap over it. We want to see, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm having resistance here. That means I have enough fear. Um here's what I'm afraid of, and here's what I truly desire that is not, you know, just satisfying this impulse, but it's like a higher desire, a higher value that I have that I want to pursue. And so I would be willing to palpate that field of fear in order and into the unknown in order to have a more expansive, greater experience than I've presently been capable of.

SPEAKER_01: 15:37

Yeah. Because sometimes that resistance, that avoidance can hold us back, like you said, from that expansive, that good experience, that that place that our higher calling wants us to meet. And there can be something that's holding us back simply because we're not ready to receive it, because we don't know how to hold it yet. And when I think about that unconscious resistance, that's kind of what I think about. It's like, okay, maybe I'm not ready to receive this. My nervous system isn't at this uh level yet. And so what do you feel like we have to do to even be able to identify it's us that's the barrier?

SPEAKER_02: 16:23

Well, I think a lot of it is nervous system work, and so just being aware, because we may, you know, kind of to the this may be nuanced, but to your point, it's like, are we conscious? Like we may be aware that we're resisting something, but we're not even aware of the resistance itself and how unconscious that is and what's informing it, right? So it's like, oh, yeah, I know I'm avoiding it. And so notice anytime you feel that, because on this spectrum of, you know, mobility and hypermobility that is our nervous system, is if we're not receptive to something, and anytime we palpate something new or unknown, again, it's gonna put us into that, oh no, right? That might be dangerous. And so I am not sure, I'm uncertain about this. And so uh that feeling will come up, even if it's something good. And so we kind of have to prime our nervous system. And so I think resistance inherently is gonna take us to the more immobilized state in our nervous system. So it's gonna stop us, it's gonna slow us down, it's gonna put us into that dorsal vagal or a freeze state, right? Which is might be temporary, it doesn't mean we're stuck there, but the resistance is inherently is telling us stop, slow down, don't proceed, right? This is dangerous, and so go to this immobilized state or stay where you are or whatever that is. And so that awareness alone tells us, I think, if we can catch that we're doing that and we're resisting something we really desire, and we can say, oh wow, that's something I desire and that's a value of mine, and I want to grow or I want to expand in this way, and I'm aware I can hold both of these consciousnesses now that I desire to be more, but I'm also experiencing this other state that's telling me to stop or don't proceed. I think that's good information to let us know, okay, well, I need to do some nervous system, I need to be aware of that. Sometimes just the awareness itself can shift us in our nervous system to a more mobilized state, to a more regulated state. And sometimes we actually need to prime the nervous system. And, you know, again, if we're immobilized, well, we have to bring mobilized energy. And so are those, you know, exercises that we need to do, is that a conversation where we have to kind of bring back some movement so that we can get back into this state in this ventrovagel where we can hold and be receptive. I mean, essentially what ventrovagel is when we're regulated is I can be receptive to the world and anything that is new. And so if you notice that your receptivity is stifled, then we've got to do something to incorporate the nervous system in a way. Because again, as we all know, it's not just our intellect. We can't get stopped, you know, we can't get stuck in that place. That's not going to serve us, it's not going to take us the distance. We have to actually work with the body and the intelligence of the body and this subcortical part of us that is not conscious. It's not conscious, the body is just telling us. And that's where all of these parts kind of step in and start to try to protect us. And it's really recognizing, again, is there really a danger here? Is there really something that I need to fear or I need to be conscious of or cognizant of in order to protect myself? Or is this a protective part that's not really serving me? It's maladaptive, it's attempting to help me, but it's not necessarily doing that in this instance because there's a desire, a pursuit that I have that's more expansive. And so, how do I work with all of those systems? And I think if we just can even observe ourselves, I always think the first step to any healing or transformation is always awareness. We have to have awareness. So, can I just simply taking on the awareness, does that give me enough space, right, to hold receptivity? And if it doesn't, then I may have to do some of these things to mobilize my energy because again, anytime there's resistance or avoidance, we're always going to an immobilized state, even if briefly, right? There's a part of us that's getting stuck there. And so we need to bring ourselves back to receptivity. And how do I make myself receptive? And what are the exercises and the tools that I need to do for my nervous system that work for me that would mobilize my energy back to a receptive place?

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

What's a mantra or affirmation that you like to use with clients when you find that their nervous system is what's impacting uh their next move or their ability to move forward?

SPEAKER_02: 20:31

Good question. So this may be getting into the weeds, but I think mantras are valuable if we can trust and believe them. But again, if the nervous system is telling us, if we try to, if you tell yourself, I am safe, I am loved, but you don't really feel it, and there's an incongruence, there's a polarity that's happening there, then they actually keep us in a loop that doesn't help us to advance. And so what can I find if I am going to use a mantra or an affirmation that I want to arrive at and I want to believe? I think simply saying it to ourselves, if there's another part of us that doesn't believe it or that is not integrated in that can kind of keep us again in a loop where frankly we can just actually imprint and embed the challenge or the limitation that we're experiencing more. And so I don't have one tried and true, but I would say, what can you find as a mantra or an affirmation that you can relate or identify with? And so if it's if we're even talking about safety, which is a huge one again in the nervous system, because that's what we're always seeking, is really okay, am I fit, do I feel safe in my body? So really asking yourself, okay, do I feel safe in my body? Do I feel safe on this, you know, do I feel safe with Jasmine? Do I feel safe in my house? Do I feel safe in my relationship? It's like finding something that you can identify that's true that may not be the full spectrum of what you want to experience in terms of that mantra or affirmation, but I can identify a piece that's true for me that I'll actually believe. Because if a part of us doesn't believe it, then we're actually just going to imprint more of the same, right? So if I tell myself, you are safe, you are safe. But there's a part of me and I haven't identified what part of me doesn't feel safe. It's like I might feel safe in some arenas, but not in others. And have I broken down the nuance to understand what part of me isn't feeling safe, right? And so if I can identify what part does feel safe, then I can leverage that to again mobilize more safety inside inside my entire system. So I would say that it's it's nuanced, right? And be individuated, like very psycho-individual to each of us and our own specific needs. So that's what I would say. I know it's not a very specific, you know, tried and true, one blanket answer, but in my world, it's also nuanced, right? There's not any one thing that I could do, but it's essentially identifying what is it that I'm seeking and how do I find a piece of truth in that which I'm seeking? If I can't fully, you know, like bite off the entire chunk of that, then how can I just bite off a sliver and then I can build on that based on what I'm I discover as I tap into the felt sense of that for myself. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01: 23:19

Absolutely. And I appreciate your candidness because it speaks to the reality of when we talk about like shifting our narrative to ourselves, shifting our language, it's not as simple as making these bold, sometimes really vague affirmations that I am safe or I am worthy, I am deserving. Because if there's a larger part of us that doesn't believe that, we can feed into that negative loop probably more even worse because we're we're telling ourselves I am deserving, and then that negative part is like, no, we're not, and we're just going in circles. But being able to latch to a piece of truth and not trying to leap 10 steps ahead where we're not yet, that gives us like space and permission to at least regulate our bodies enough to start to believe it.

SPEAKER_02: 24:16

Exactly. Exactly. And it the wisdom of that just feels, you know, like it's like, oh yeah, that's so true. Because if I do even, you know, safety, it could be any of it. I'm glad you brought up worthiness because a person that feels deeply unworthy to just tell yourself you are worthy, you're gonna reject that. That the larger part of you that doesn't feel worthy, or else you wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place, is absolutely gonna reject that. And then you're not gonna trust the part of you that's wise that's trying to tell you that you are. You're not gonna trust it. And so now we've actually amplified and compounded the problem if we just try to force it in that way. We have to find a path in that's authentic.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

Part of reshaping our internal voice, I think, is also reshaping our relationship to our internal voice. It's seeing the negative voice as a part of us, and sometimes being able to identify where that negative message came from and being able to give it a name when we get back into all of those modalities, but being able to separate ourselves from it a little bit and then rebuild this relationship with our narrative that is more true and honest with ourselves is honest work. It takes more than affirmations and large mantras, it takes building those steps towards having a safe, nurturing relationship with that internal voice.

SPEAKER_02: 25:44

Couldn't agree more. Yeah, couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01: 25:47

When I think about the healing space, when I think about a lot of the advice that a lot of people like to give, and that is write down 10 affirmations a day or write down something that uh you like about yourself, it's so much more complicated than that. When we think about rewiring our brain, rewiring our nervous system, if it was just thoughts, then a lot of us wouldn't be having the challenges that we do. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 26:16

Because we're all so intelligent, like nobody would choose to suffer, we wouldn't actively consciously choose that. Many of us do unconsciously choose that, but it's because we don't know any better, and then we're trying to apply solutions that are too generalized. They're not psycho-individual, they're not bio-individual, they're not considering the nuance and the complexity of the human experience and the individual. And so we have to really consider how complex we are, and that also there is wisdom in everything that we've become or taken on as compensatory strategies. There's a wisdom in all of it. It's very intelligent. It just has probably become maladaptive for us at this point. And so, how do we identify in a very kind of psycho-individual way what it is for us that we need and how do we apply that? And that's where I can have a little of my own resistance, right, to some of the more linear ways or anchoring into just one modality because I think it misses, it's gonna catch many people, but it's gonna miss a lot of people. And so, how do we really make sure that our treatment is so individuated and that we're celebrating the spirit and the essence and the individual path of each person that we're meeting? And so we have to get into the nuance and the complexity of who they are and how that was formed in the first place. We have to kind of, I mean, even going back to the shrink bigger, and I'm glad because there's lots of nuance of that. It's like we have to be able to distill it down to the little fragments and these parts that are very specific and they're very small and they're very simple in order to understand how it became what it is. And so all of that is really true for me. And in that way that we really attach and attune to the soul and the essence of a person and what their unique path has been. Yes, there are absolutely behavioral patterns that emerge that are common among humans. And if we don't really celebrate what that is for you, if I just presume that this is a pattern and this is what this must mean, versus what does it mean to you? And to me, that's what the spiritual psychology really is. It's like I could apply my own meaning, but that would just be a projection. How do I really seek to understand what that meaning has been for you and how you make a more conscious or constructive meaning of that in your own life? And if I can open up a container for you to do that rather than any projections or any over-generalizations or anything like that may not serve you, they may be accurate. But chances are, and what I've found is when you really give people the space to have this self-discovery in a way that's not projecting any of my own meaning or any of the traditional meaning that would be, but I allow that to unfold for you. Something so expansive can unfold for people.

SPEAKER_01: 29:12

Yeah, it has me thinking about how we as a sci as a society really value big moves and people love celebrating huge milestones and believing that they have to only celebrate themselves when they've taken 10 steps ahead. Part of rewiring, part of doing the work and really building from a regulated place is celebrating the small wins, like celebrating that you woke up, went to work, showed up, and got home. That is enough, and that has to like resonate and feel like enough so that your nervous system can grow to really celebrating and believing that you are worthy of those like bigger moments and bigger milestones.

SPEAKER_02: 30:00

Absolutely, it's the subtle. I think there's so much potency in the subtlety. And I can't tell you how many people I'll work with that it's like, yeah, sure, there can be radical shifts that can happen in profound moments, right? And sometimes, and usually I would say it's just this gradual transformation. You notice that you're less of this and more of that. And I don't even know exactly when or how it happened, but the subtlety of how that unfolded, this is what emerged. I've just been in the becoming of this transformation, right? And I couldn't even quite put my finger on any one thing. It's just been a million little things that have helped me become this. And it's very subtle. And there's something so potent about that subtlety that I would say most of the people that I work with, that's what they'll say. It's like I didn't even quite notice that it was happening, but all of a sudden I noticed that it was different. And it takes time and investment when you really kind of allow it to unfold in that way. And it also takes the pressure off. It's like this very organic unfolding, this very organic becoming that there's no force involved. It's just can flow and become what it's meant to be in this beautiful, transcendent way.

SPEAKER_01: 31:15

You wake up one day and realize you can say, No, a little bit easier. You wake up and you recognize I can change my rates and know that people will pay to work with me. You wake up one day and recognize your voice deserves to be seen, heard, and it all starts to feel a little easier every day. And it's sometimes it's going to be a grand like epiphany, but like you said, it's going to be those subtle shifts that you're going to experience in your everyday, and you're gradually going to recognize like, wow, something that used to be really challenging actually has gotten so much easier.

SPEAKER_02: 31:53

Yeah. My relationship to that struggle I had or that pain or this way of relating that caused me suffering. Oh, I'm not suffering with that anymore. Oh, I'm aware of it. It's still, you know, but I just have a different relationship. And so I think that's the beauty of how this work really is can be so profound. And yeah, it removes any, I mean, kind of even to go back to that piece of just like the pressure we can put on ourselves and how that can stifle us if there's too much of that. It allows this just to unfold in a way that there isn't pressure. Well, there isn't pressure. It's just really organic.

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

And yeah. What's something for you that you've recognized a subtle a subtle shift with?

SPEAKER_02: 32:36

Oh my goodness, so many things. I would say one huge one is visibility, my voice, authenticity, you know, just specific things that I have struggled with that I was so uncomfortable with, just or I tried to manipulate in my own way or strategize around avoiding or not feeling or presenting in a different way. It's like I just notice that I'm less of that. A lot of it is just the showing up. Like we just have to show up and keep doing it in this way that eventually transforms, right, and becomes something different. But for me, some of those struggles were self-abandonment, right? They were, again, being an expert in other people at the detriment of really knowing myself or being known, which goes directly hand in hand with visibility, which goes directly hand in hand with using my voice, which goes directly hand in hand with a lot of patterns that come along with that. And so for me, that was a huge struggle because I would always kind of acquiesce to the other. And I'm good at putting other people in the spotlight and helping them to be known again at the expense of myself really being known. And so I was uncomfortable being visible. I was uncomfortable using my voice. I was uncomfortable speaking up in some of those ways. And those things have just dissolved. I mean, I couldn't have shown up right and done a podcast where I thought, who knows who's going to see this and are they going to judge me? I just couldn't have done that many years ago, you know, in a function of myself. I couldn't have done that and felt comfortable. It would just stifle me. I would be stuck. I would be shut down. I wouldn't be able to express myself in a flowing, you know. I mean, I show up and do things like this or my work every day with people. And I don't plan. I don't think, oh, well, what's this going to be about? Or what do I need to talk about? I don't prepare. I don't do any of that. I just show up and be myself, right? And so for me, those are massive. And I don't know what we're going to talk about. I don't know what you're going to ask me. And I don't know any of those things. And I think there's something really beautiful because I'm now so comfortable. No matter what somebody shows up in a session, I'm not worried about it. I don't need to plan. I don't need to prepare. I don't need to educate myself. Like if I show up and I learn how to organize myself around me and my values and what I know, then I just know I trust that it will unfold. And I allow that to happen in a way that I think allows people, not everybody, but allows people to feel refreshed by that or enlightened by that or drawn to it in some way.

SPEAKER_01: 35:07

What's something specific that's helped you get more comfortable with being visible?

SPEAKER_02: 35:15

I do think, again, like showing up, like practicing it, being in the practice of it. So that can happen in subtle ways, but I mean, again, a great example is like years ago, I would have been stifled by showing up and being on a podcast, right? Or being visible in that way. And so putting myself in situations, consciously choosing to put myself in situations where that has exposed me to that. It's like, oh yeah, there's actually nothing to fear here. It's a great conversation with a great wise person and I love it. And if it can help somebody, amazing, you know. And so I think exposure, we build confidence by practice. We build confidence by knowing it, it's just like this resistance that I might have to being visible or using my voice. I might have had resistance to that and thought, oh, I need to be so overprepared or I need to be perfect or I need to be just like, I just need to put myself in that situation. And the first time I do it, I'm gonna be sweating bullets and I'm gonna be really uncomfortable and I'm gonna be shaking in my chair and I'm gonna feel like I couldn't breathe the whole time. Then I'm gonna notice, oh wow, I survived that. And I actually became more of the thing that I wanted, just like we were talking about, right? I expanded in this way. And I might not have even done an amazing job, right? But I'm less over-identified with needing to be perfect or needing it to be anything at all, but just I need to do it. I need if I understand that part of the antidote to my fear of being invisible and not being therefore known, which is a huge one, or not being significant, right? It's like if I stay silent and I don't let anybody see me and I don't speak up and I'm zipping my lips or I'm not showing up, right? Well then how could I ever really be known? And so we have to understand what is it that we desire, what is it that we're in pursuit of all the time, and how is it that we're going about that unconsciously in ways that aren't really ever going to deliver us to that place that we truly seek to be? And so for me, a lot of that was being known, being significant, being all of those things that it's like, I don't need significance from everyone. I don't need to be the queen of the hill in any way, and frankly, this relationship with attention and oh, I'm so uncomfortable with that. I just need to be willing to show up. And however that unfolds, I need to see, oh, not only did I survive that, it was actually really safe. Oh, Jasmine was really warm, she was lovely. I loved being in her presence and hearing things about her and all of this. How can that be an expansive experience too? Because again, how was that valuable for me to show up? And if I'm just using again this example, but there's so many of those. Like, how do I go to the party or how do I show up in relationship? How do I open my heart? How I mean, there's so many ways we can do that. And I think we need to challenge ourselves to notice, hey, I'm uncomfortable. Okay, well, how do I consciously perceive that? I'm aware of it. Why might I be having those? Oh, okay, well, probably there was some struggle in my past where that didn't go well for me, or I felt humiliated, or I feared being humiliated, or I feared not being liked, or any of those things. And so I'm aware that might be something that would cause resistance for me. And then I palpate it anyway. I say, okay, well, yeah, I'm gonna have that, I'm gonna go on that date, I'm gonna have that meeting, I'm gonna show up on that podcast, I'm gonna show up and do that speaking event, I'm going to, you know, whatever the thing may be, right? I'm gonna write the book, I'm gonna do the thing. And so I'm gonna put myself in a container where that can be expanded and I can all there see from that space, oh, you know, that wasn't as bad as I feared. And that fear that I had, it's like, well, that was then, this is now. And so I can carve out a new experience for myself. And the more I practice doing that, the more I see that, oh wow, that was actually expansive and that felt better. And I actually feel more significant or those things. I feel more known, right? I feel known because I express myself. And does everybody want to hear what I have to say? No, they don't. But do some people will it be valuable or will it inspire something for them? And will it then give them a piece, a taste of, oh, well, yeah, that's who Casey is and that's her philosophy, and that's what she believes, and those are her values. And do I resonate with that or do I not resonate? And then again, it's nothing's personal because not everybody's gonna resonate with it. But the people that do, beautiful, that gives significance, that gives visibility, that gives also, and which is less about me having that, but it's more because I do acquire those things when that happens, but it really is I'm just a reflection of you having those things for yourself. And how does that help you to expand and awaken those things in yourself? And so that's just we're constantly on a cycle, right? Of that and stepping into that version of ourselves. So that's kind of how I see it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:58

Sometimes the best way that we can retrain our nervous system is through action, and it's not through perfect action, it's not through knowing how it's gonna go, knowing what to expect. It's literally showing up, doing it, doing it while you're sweating, doing it even when you don't feel great, doing it even though you're nervous and maybe thinking about, oh no, what are other people gonna think? I think so many people listening to this will resonate with that, like anxiety, that feeling of I don't know what to expect, or not everyone wants to hear me. Not everyone wants to hear you, but there are people that are gonna resonate with your story. And so you showing up is offering them a voice that they've been looking for this entire time.

SPEAKER_02: 40:41

Yeah, and we're just in all, like even take it away from anything that might be like just in our own relational frameworks. Like the more that we do that for ourselves, the more it gives other people the permission, and then the deeper, more intimate, more connected relationships that we have. And I personally believe that's what we're here to do, to experience, right? Our own version of that and our own intimacy in the way that, again, uniquely relative to you and your values and your essence and what you know about yourself, it's like that's what we're meant to do is have this expansive, intimate, connected experience as often as possible in this life. And otherwise, we're missing something that's really quintessential to the meaning of life itself. And so I think it's through this connection. And if we can't show up in an intimate, authentic way in connection, which we can't do if we're not showing up that way, and we can't do the people in proximity to us are not showing up in that way. And so by us venturing into that realm and daring to do this thing that we all fear, which is really kind of being known and seen in a way, I think it's such a common fear that we have because we've had a negative experience with it at one point. By doing that, we really invite other people to do it, but we also have this like fully expressed experience of life. And I think that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_01: 42:05

Definitely, Casey. There are so many gems in this episode that I am so excited for people to hear. And I just thank you so much for joining me today. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or find themselves wanting to work with you?

SPEAKER_02: 42:19

Oh, sure. Well, shrink bigger, as we've discussed, is my website and my Instagram handle and YouTube and all of those places. And so you can look that up or just yeah, Google it. And if you find me, and if it resonates, then you know, you're more than welcome. And I love doing things like this because it gives people kind of free exposure to information and to sit in the energy of anything and see again, does it align? Does it resonate? Does it spark something? Does it open something up in you? And if it does, you know, there's so many ways to experience that with me or anyone, right? But I think that's really the barometer that we want to be listening to is that alignment, that resonance, and how do I feel? What's the felt sense that anything gives me? And if I'm drawn to it, then can I pursue that more in an expansive way for myself?

SPEAKER_01: 43:06

Everything will be linked in the show notes. And as a final question to all of my guests, I am asking, what is a word that you hope to embody at the end of 2025?

SPEAKER_02: 43:18

I would say integrity. I think integrity to me is to be in alignment with our values, so we need to know our values in order to embody those and to be in integrity really, I think gives people the clear felt sense of who you are. And again, like it or not, they can decide that, right? And it's not personal. Uh, but if we choose to pursue and be so devoted to our own integrity, which is going to be unique and intrinsic to each one of us, then what it allows is people to have a clear perception, a perspective, right? Uh of who you are and how you operate and what they're connecting to. And that makes everything simple, right? So I would say integrity.

SPEAKER_01: 44:14

Amazing. Thank you so much.